Comments on: Windows 7 Beta in photos http://thisismyblog.com/2009/01/13/windows-7-beta-in-photos/ The blog of Espen Sae-Tang Ottersen, an all-around computer geek from Oslo, Norway. Interests include information architecture, design, semantic web, web standars, social networking, and other techy things. On this website you will mostly find posts on software and the web, with a few words from his personal life now and then. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:33:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Espen http://thisismyblog.com/2009/01/13/windows-7-beta-in-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-817 Espen Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:35:26 +0000 http://thisismyblog.com/?p=245#comment-817 Don't get me wrong. I am a die-hard Mac user (with a big love for Linux and BSD's as well); and it will take a lot for me to change my main platform away from Mac OS X. I have personally been using a Mac (with OS X) exclusively for 5 years, before that I used Linux (since 2001). I haven't used Windows as my main OS since 2001. OS X is another world compared to Windows, and always at the forefront of innovation and new features when it comes to both the UI and underlying software and OS code. If I refer to innovation when it comes to Windows I mostly think of it as "innovations in Windows land", not necessarily in the whole software world or among the closest competitors. However, I believe Microsoft catching up to Apple is just a good thing for us, the consumers. This will just make the great engineers at Apple make even better features and UI's. Also, it makes the pain a little less worse on the occasions where you have to use a Windows machine (at work, public places and so on). Of course, being a programmer myself I do not think it is funny when other people copy my work - or more generally when big corporations basically photocopy the innovation and great new features made by smaller companies, basically destroying their software ecosystem. When it comes to operating systems, however, the market got 2-3 main "competitors". That being of course Apple, Microsoft, and the GNU/Linux & Open Source community. To copy good ideas, innovations and paradigms from each other is, in that situation, mostly good for the average consumer by minimizing the learning curve when taking on new OS. I welcome Microsoft in finally making a task bar similar to OS X's Dock (welcome! sorry, but your 7-8 years late), which I think is a superb way of managing running apps (and often used ones). However, I think it is funny when they shamelessly copy, pixel by pixel, applications and/or features. Have you seen Windows Calendar and iCal side by side? They are basically twins. And we all know who came first...iCal. As you say, it is the "inside" that counts. Having to maintain backward/legacy compatibility is one of the things that Microsoft has chosen to live with. In addition to that you have the monolithic development process Microsoft uses which makes it quite difficult to create new features that "sticks" past alpha stage. The underlying message I wanted to give with this blog post is that this Microsoft is moving in the correct direction. At least UI wise. I haven't really touched the security aspects of it, and the fundamental flaws of the OS. I have just gone through some UI changes that I feel will make some changes for "the WIndows 7 users of tomorrow". When it comes to flaws, bugs, etc. it would probably be better to write a book... Microsoft still do have a long way to go before they catch OS X (if they ever will). It's like the game of a cat and mouse...except the cat never catch the mouse.:-) Don’t get me wrong. I am a die-hard Mac user (with a big love for Linux and BSD’s as well); and it will take a lot for me to change my main platform away from Mac OS X. I have personally been using a Mac (with OS X) exclusively for 5 years, before that I used Linux (since 2001). I haven’t used Windows as my main OS since 2001. OS X is another world compared to Windows, and always at the forefront of innovation and new features when it comes to both the UI and underlying software and OS code. If I refer to innovation when it comes to Windows I mostly think of it as “innovations in Windows land”, not necessarily in the whole software world or among the closest competitors.

However, I believe Microsoft catching up to Apple is just a good thing for us, the consumers. This will just make the great engineers at Apple make even better features and UI’s. Also, it makes the pain a little less worse on the occasions where you have to use a Windows machine (at work, public places and so on).

Of course, being a programmer myself I do not think it is funny when other people copy my work – or more generally when big corporations basically photocopy the innovation and great new features made by smaller companies, basically destroying their software ecosystem. When it comes to operating systems, however, the market got 2-3 main “competitors”. That being of course Apple, Microsoft, and the GNU/Linux & Open Source community. To copy good ideas, innovations and paradigms from each other is, in that situation, mostly good for the average consumer by minimizing the learning curve when taking on new OS.

I welcome Microsoft in finally making a task bar similar to OS X’s Dock (welcome! sorry, but your 7-8 years late), which I think is a superb way of managing running apps (and often used ones). However, I think it is funny when they shamelessly copy, pixel by pixel, applications and/or features. Have you seen Windows Calendar and iCal side by side? They are basically twins. And we all know who came first…iCal.

As you say, it is the “inside” that counts. Having to maintain backward/legacy compatibility is one of the things that Microsoft has chosen to live with. In addition to that you have the monolithic development process Microsoft uses which makes it quite difficult to create new features that “sticks” past alpha stage.

The underlying message I wanted to give with this blog post is that this Microsoft is moving in the correct direction. At least UI wise. I haven’t really touched the security aspects of it, and the fundamental flaws of the OS. I have just gone through some UI changes that I feel will make some changes for “the WIndows 7 users of tomorrow”. When it comes to flaws, bugs, etc. it would probably be better to write a book… Microsoft still do have a long way to go before they catch OS X (if they ever will). It’s like the game of a cat and mouse…except the cat never catch the mouse.:-)

]]> By: Peter http://thisismyblog.com/2009/01/13/windows-7-beta-in-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-816 Peter Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:08:39 +0000 http://thisismyblog.com/?p=245#comment-816 It is starting to become a bit sad when people are drooling over what is in fact one of the biggest copy-cat actions in the entire computer industry. All the supposedly new features/improvements have been directly lifted from OSX (now most noticeably the OSX dock, which to me is highly ironic, considering how much this has been ridiculed by Windows enthusiasts since it first appeared in OS X 10.0). The silent agreement that Apple and Microsoft had not to sue each other is definitely benefitting the latter. Vista was already a big push to become more like OSX, and Windows 7 appears to continue where Vista left off. The funny thing of it all is to read messages from so-called “Mac users”, who all of a sudden have seen the light and are heaping praise on this new version of Windows. There is NOTHING I have seen so far that is NOT included in 10.5. The only strength (and at the same time weakness) that Windows ever had that it was a mass market OS (with larger amount of software and supported hardware), that due to shrewd marketing of the early versions of DOS and Windows achieved a market dominance that it never deserved. The first time that Microsoft will come up with an innovative new feature that is not directly lifted of Mac OSX, Linux or any other software development will be a remarkable day in business. Till that day, lets keep this entire thing in perspective. I have not tried Windows 7 (currently keeping a OSX 10.5/Windows XP dual boot nice and stable), but I honestly hope that they did manage to finally close some holes in the security of this product. The entire scourge of spam and malware would not be upon us without the “great innovative” products of Microsoft. I am reminded of that every day when at my work I have to remove dozens of spam mails. Also, I am definitely not against Microsoft coming up with a good OS for a change (the Vista jokes were getting old anyhow), but not at the expense of someone else’s hard work. If I was a programmer at Apple I would be pretty pissed if they copied my work, and then passed it off with minor “adjustments” to avoid copying it directly as “innovation”. That is not innovation, it’s theft. I hope that the people at Apple feel the same way and are very motivated to building truly innovative features in 10.6 and beyond. Waiting for Microsoft to come up with something nice takes me a bit too long. In that case, some competition that is not easily blown away with funny ads could be a good thing. Though it is not extremely hard to copy interface designs (it only took Microsoft 7 years) , the underlying processes are much harder to duplicate. And in that respect, unless I see proof otherwise, Windows will still be held hostage by its own legacy code. The time it took to throw Windows 7 to the masses can’t possibly be enough to fix the fundamental flaws of Windows. But if together with this new paintjob, they improved security somewhat, than I am already happy. They were at least in this case smart enough to release a public beta (and thus dodging the criticism of not-working software, hardware or other problems by pointing to the beta status). Probably also because the Vista fiasco left them little choice but to release something and take the spotlight of what is arguably one of the worst software developments since Windows ME. Maybe you should keep the above in mind when having another urge to heap praise where none is deserved. It is starting to become a bit sad when people are drooling over what is in fact one of the biggest copy-cat actions in the entire computer industry. All the supposedly new features/improvements have been directly lifted from OSX (now most noticeably the OSX dock, which to me is highly ironic, considering how much this has been ridiculed by Windows enthusiasts since it first appeared in OS X 10.0). The silent agreement that Apple and Microsoft had not to sue each other is definitely benefitting the latter. Vista was already a big push to become more like OSX, and Windows 7 appears to continue where Vista left off. The funny thing of it all is to read messages from so-called “Mac users”, who all of a sudden have seen the light and are heaping praise on this new version of Windows. There is NOTHING I have seen so far that is NOT included in 10.5. The only strength (and at the same time weakness) that Windows ever had that it was a mass market OS (with larger amount of software and supported hardware), that due to shrewd marketing of the early versions of DOS and Windows achieved a market dominance that it never deserved. The first time that Microsoft will come up with an innovative new feature that is not directly lifted of Mac OSX, Linux or any other software development will be a remarkable day in business. Till that day, lets keep this entire thing in perspective. I have not tried Windows 7 (currently keeping a OSX 10.5/Windows XP dual boot nice and stable), but I honestly hope that they did manage to finally close some holes in the security of this product. The entire scourge of spam and malware would not be upon us without the “great innovative” products of Microsoft. I am reminded of that every day when at my work I have to remove dozens of spam mails. Also, I am definitely not against Microsoft coming up with a good OS for a change (the Vista jokes were getting old anyhow), but not at the expense of someone else’s hard work. If I was a programmer at Apple I would be pretty pissed if they copied my work, and then passed it off with minor “adjustments” to avoid copying it directly as “innovation”. That is not innovation, it’s theft. I hope that the people at Apple feel the same way and are very motivated to building truly innovative features in 10.6 and beyond. Waiting for Microsoft to come up with something nice takes me a bit too long. In that case, some competition that is not easily blown away with funny ads could be a good thing. Though it is not extremely hard to copy interface designs (it only took Microsoft 7 years) , the underlying processes are much harder to duplicate. And in that respect, unless I see proof otherwise, Windows will still be held hostage by its own legacy code. The time it took to throw Windows 7 to the masses can’t possibly be enough to fix the fundamental flaws of Windows. But if together with this new paintjob, they improved security somewhat, than I am already happy. They were at least in this case smart enough to release a public beta (and thus dodging the criticism of not-working software, hardware or other problems by pointing to the beta status). Probably also because the Vista fiasco left them little choice but to release something and take the spotlight of what is arguably one of the worst software developments since Windows ME. Maybe you should keep the above in mind when having another urge to heap praise where none is deserved.

]]> By: Espen http://thisismyblog.com/2009/01/13/windows-7-beta-in-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-815 Espen Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:55:32 +0000 http://thisismyblog.com/?p=245#comment-815 I second your opinion about Vista and 7. And the best thing, this is just the beta. Some things might even get better in the final version. Also, they are indeed catching up with Apple on this one (that is the way I feel it anyway). Who knows, when Windows 7 get released I might by a Windows laptop to run it myself.;-) Another thing that I didn't mention in this blog post is that they have vastly improved the UAC (the "grayed out background" messages popping up now and then)...which is a really good thing. I second your opinion about Vista and 7. And the best thing, this is just the beta. Some things might even get better in the final version. Also, they are indeed catching up with Apple on this one (that is the way I feel it anyway).

Who knows, when Windows 7 get released I might by a Windows laptop to run it myself.;-)

Another thing that I didn’t mention in this blog post is that they have vastly improved the UAC (the “grayed out background” messages popping up now and then)…which is a really good thing.

]]> By: Gus http://thisismyblog.com/2009/01/13/windows-7-beta-in-photos/comment-page-1/#comment-814 Gus Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:52:43 +0000 http://thisismyblog.com/?p=245#comment-814 It's nice to read some opinions from a OS X user :-) I am a Vista user, and though I'm quite happy with it, after trying this beta for a few days, I can see that this is what Vista should have been from the start. The user experience is so much, much better. Maybe Microsoft will catch up to Apple in that regard someday ;) It’s nice to read some opinions from a OS X user :-)

I am a Vista user, and though I’m quite happy with it, after trying this beta for a few days, I can see that this is what Vista should have been from the start. The user experience is so much, much better. Maybe Microsoft will catch up to Apple in that regard someday ;)

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